Dazbog Coffee is now open at The Great Indoors in Scottsdale. It’s actually inside the store (a Starbucks used to occupy the same location). I checked it out recently at the suggestion of a friend (he was actually there the day they opened). It’s interesting but definitely not a high caliber coffee house. They don’t have porcelain cups. My mocha was actually really good (the first photo), but I’ve got to say I’m spoiled after having fantastic cappuccinos in Italy this summer. If you’re up that way shopping it’s worth a visit, and a nice addition to North Scottsdale. Scottsdale – The Great Indoors 16275 N. Scottsdale Rd. Scottsdale, AZ 85254 Phone: (480) 991-0989
Psyd Uhm, are those super-autos behind the counter? It takes quite a bit of constant maintenance and attention for an SA to pull mediocre shots, and something tells me that if you’re purchasing a super, you’re hoping not to have to do it. Not a chance of getting anything much better than you’re average Starbucks out of their old kit, I’m sorry to say. I’m thinking that AZ Coffee is here to expose us to the best in coffee available here in AZ. I may have gotten things crossed in my head, but one of the reasons that the ‘espresso map’ didn’t take off was that it wasn’t any indication of quality, only availability. Once you dilute the coffee so that anything applies, you might as well start listing the automatic ‘cappuccino’ makers in QuikMarts and Chevron stations. Or it could just be me… 0 Reply December 19, 2008
Chris Tingom Psyd, a bunch of people asked me about it. Hence the visit and the post. I’d like to think that Arizona Coffee helps people know where not to go as well. 0 Reply December 19, 2008
Ron Cortez I will have to agree with Mr. Babbie about Jura machines, they’re the worst of all SA’s according to my experience. On the other hand, Juras are never to be placed in the category of pretty good machines like Frankee, Askoyen, or Brasilia (never found at a convenience store). The use of a superauto is not the only indicator of low quality in a coffee place. How fresh the coffee actually is will definitely be a better parameter. I think that freshness has been one of the things, as we have learned here at Arizona Coffee, that makes a good coffee place. So how fresh was it? Is coffee roasted in Colorado better than coffee roasted in Arizona? I like the marketing illusion but extremely good coffee is always a better indicator of Daz Dog’s intentions of providing coffee to this community. 0 Reply December 20, 2008
Victor No porcelain cups was all I needed to read. I can certainly understand the reason why they’re not offered, but it doesn’t mean it’s a good reason. It’s amzazing to me how many indies still will serve a straight shot of espresso, or even a real machiato in a 16 oz paper cup. Paper cups only = fast food type place. 0 Reply December 20, 2008
Robert I’m sitting here in the Dazbog cafe at the moment while typing this up. I’m using their free wifi and enjoying my chocolate cappuccino from their porcelain Dazbog cup. (yes they do have them, all I did was ask.) The esspresso machines they use are Frankes not juras. Despite the machines being superautos it’s a great espresso. The staff here is always amazing, you can sit here for a while and watch them personally greet each customer by name. They go to great lengths to please customers. One of their baristas just came by and asked me if there was anything i would like to watch on the television. Next time I visit I’ll bring my camera. 0 Reply December 21, 2008
Psyd Frankes, Juras, all the same (within a species). It was hard to tell from the pics, but that doesn’t change anything. Being Frankes probably indicates that they were leftover from the Green Monster. These machines are able to produce mediocre-to-good espresso, but only if they are cleaned, adjusted, and maintained properly and constantly. They almost never are. Ask any pro barista. The adjustment on the grinder varies between shop opening, and lunch, and again between lunch and the afternoon, at the very least. A change in humidity in the shop’ll do it, too. No SA is going to be able to track those kinds of changes, and very few PBTC even know how to adjust the grind, or how to tell if it needs it. Seeing a Super Auto behind the counter may not be a 100% indicator that the espresso isn’t going to be any good at all, but so far, my research hasn’t found any place that uses a super auto who’s espresso doesn’t outright suck. I’m all for nice staff, but I’ll take a surly barista serving me absolutely wonderful espresso over nice people serving me swill any day of the week. 0 Reply December 21, 2008
Jason Is Dazbog part of a chain that started in Denver or some place? I feel like I saw them there sometime – maybe even in Casper WY or something.. Just curious. 0 Reply December 21, 2008
Ron Cortez Now, I have to disagree with Mr. Babbie (all in good faith and Christmas spirit). If a research is conduced in a non-scientific way the result is nothing but a personal preference. I could say that a Barista that does not drink the ingredients on a drink and bases his judgment in the beauty of the art he drew is never up to par with a very well adjusted and with fresh espresso SA (they are not difficult to calibrate once you open them up). There is a fine line between the ultimate drink and an illusion. Lets face it, Daz bog looks cool, new and is located in a good location, that is why people are going to check them out. If some of you up there want to judge there coffee ask for a plain shot of espresso or a cup of coffee, that will give you a simple glimpse of there coffee reality everybody knows that cappuccinos, mochas and lattes with lots of sugar and cremes will hide all coffee imperfections. We need to be very educated judges in order to say that something sucks. Let’s not be haters. 0 Reply December 22, 2008
Garry I also believe Dazbog was or MAY still be in Lamars Donuts. At least it was when I lived i Vegas back in 2000. 0 Reply December 22, 2008
Psyd [quote Psyd]Seeing a Super Auto behind the counter may not be a 100% indicator that the espresso isn’t going to be any good at all, but so far, my research hasn’t found any place that uses a super auto who’s espresso doesn’t outright suck. [/quote] I never said that SA’s can’t make decent espresso. I said that I’ve never had anyone make decent espresso from an SA. SA’s in a professional environment usually (read: not every single time) means that the management.owners prefer not to train their staff extensively in the requisite skill s required to make decent espresso. This usually includes maintaining and adjusting a SA. I never said ‘can’t’ I specifically said ‘don’t’. I’d be happy to find a place with an SA that could reliably pull a shot that rivals, say Jason’s at Cartel. Someone point me in that general direction. I’m willing to change my mind, but I’m gonna need something other than hearsay and anecdotal evidence. ; > 0 Reply December 22, 2008
Ron Cortez See that is why I love this blog. How about a side by side double blind taste? We will put a super auto and a manual ready to go, both with super clean water and you will tell wich is wich. you can bring your own coffee or I will roast any origen or blend at your specification. I always wanted to do that ussing somebody elses opinion. It will be very educational. 0 Reply December 22, 2008
Coffee Lover I’m more thankful for less comments on my place..less can always be better! Ron….I agree with your last comment, I’d love to see a side by side…but unfortunately I know the outcome already! Todd…….THANKS FOR YOUR HELP!!!!!! YOU ROCK AND SO DOES YOUR CHOCOLATE!!!! Happy Holidays everyone!!! Steve Press Coffee food wine 0 Reply December 22, 2008
steve kessler Amen Psyd. I HAVE had espresso served on new and cleaned SA’s and I have never been impressed. There are so many variables that go into espresso (serious pro’s pull serious shots). Having a machine pull shots in exactly the same way, all the time, screams mediocre spro. In my humble opinion, any shop that has an SA, isn’t that concerned about true artisian barista skills. Just my thoughts though…. 0 Reply December 22, 2008
Victor I would welcome a side by side comparison. Other than for convenience and consistence, an SA can’t compete with a well prepared real espresso. I can’t imagine a place like Cartel ever sporting one of those machines. It would just be so outa place. But hey, this is an age old arguement that will not be solved anytime soon, I’m sure. 0 Reply December 22, 2008
Austin You are all probably right, but most shops don’t sell that many espressos. And an okay espresso on an SA is better than the swill that 90% of the baristas can’t pull properly. Plus when a majority of drinks are mixed with sweeteners or blended, they can probably do okay. The problem is a lot of times the SA comes with bad beans and the person buying it doesn’t understand the intricacies of good beans. So they get some macro roaster and buy 100 lbs at a time. If they had weekly roasts and even if the owner checked the machine a couple times a week it would probably be decent. This isn’t chess, a machine cannot compete but it can certainly set the low bar. 0 Reply December 23, 2008
Ron Cortez I have to admit that not everybody has the time to set up a machine for this kind of test. We will not only clean a SA, we will have to adjust the grind, the amount of coffee, water temperature and volume to match a manual one. Most places that use a SA have a technician do it but in this case I will do it myself. This experiment will not work on a Jura or any home machine because of water pressure and other issues. I am pretty confident about a comparison test based on the fact that I have done this experiment already (I do like very good espresso fresh and with tons of crema). I will never dismiss the dedication of some very extraordinary Baristas but if you break down the espresso formula performed by a human, a machine can duplicate as long as adjustment options are provided. Yes the SA will get out of adjustment but they can be adjusted the same a manual one will need to be calibrated. After the holydays I will be inviting some of you to my warehouse and run the taste. Merry Christmas everybody! 0 Reply December 23, 2008
Psyd I tell you what, Ron. You bring an SA down to Tucson, and I’ll put the machine in my kitchen up against it. Or, we’ll take it to Cartel, and put Jason, the Cyncra, and the Versalab up against it. It will fail. Many times, in a row. I’m prety sure that if you were to set the machine up, I’d still like the espresso. Maybe not as much as Jason’s hand-crafted, but I’d still like it. The problem is that if you went away for a week, I’d no longer like the product that came out of that machine. Probably after four days I’d hate it. SA’s are adequate *when they;re properly cared for and adjusted*! The big problem is that they’re never, ever properly cared for or adjusted. If a shop owner wanted to take the time to train folk to make great espresso, and all the artisan skills and techniques require to do that, it’s so much easier to give them better kit, and train them on that. The entire concept behind the SA’s is that you can hire a pimple-faced high-school PBTC to push a button and serve drinks. For minimum wage or less. If quality were a concern of the shop owner, the last thing he’s want is a super-auto. 0 Reply December 23, 2008
steve kessler Yet again Psyd…..AMEN! My thoughts exactly. Great debate though!!! 0 Reply December 23, 2008
Ron Cortez Like I said I have done the experiment and it was done blindly. If you already know that you do not like the drink out of a undetermined machine it does not make any sense to conduct the experiment. This debate is about being open minded and exposing yourself to the truth, no names or brands. If you can brake down the espresso formula: fresh coffee, adecuate water, preassure, water ratio and brewing time, etc. The result will be the same. There is no magic performed by a particular brand of machine or the dude at cartel. Good coffee will yield good espresso. I used to think the same way as some of you guys until somebody really worked on a SA at my shop and served me 2 espresso shots to me at the same time one out of each machine and I was not able to identify the result. I was proved wrong. I did have an open mind and the test was conducted blindly later by myself. If people were up to judge a drink for its taste alone perhaps we can continue advancing in this coffee industry. I will set up the eperiment and the two machines will use the same coffee, all of you will be invited. However nobody that will be rendering judgement will be pulling shots they will be judges that have to be objective. It will be a blast. Think about two shots of espresso and you will tell me wich is wich. Game? 0 Reply December 25, 2008
Psyd Ron, you really need to slow down and re-re-read the posts before you respond. No on is arguing that the machinery is capable of decent shots. I’ve said that in three posts by now. I’ll say it again: It IS possible to make decent espresso with a super automatic machine. What I contend is that it isn’t probable. Folks who BUY SA’s are definitely not buying them for their great espresso-making abilities, they’re buying them so that they do NOT have to have highly-trained baristi behind the counter. Having no highly trained baristi behind tha counter means that the coffee is just flat out gonna suck no matter what kind of water, coffee, or machinery you have. The ingredients of good espresso are: ‘Macinazione’ or grind, Miscela or ‘blend’ (the coffee), Macchina is the espresso machine, and Mano is the skilled hand of the barista. Lose any one of these and the chances of getting good espresso are near to nil. I am so absolutely sure that you or your friend could tune a superauto to make decent espresso. The minut you leave, though, that machine will continue doing exactly what you’ve tuned to to do. Regardless of what changes occur around it, like humidity, temperature, age of coffee or pace of customer requests. All of these things require a barista to adjust his technique to keep the quality on a par with those changes. A superauto is unable to make those changes, and 99.9% of the operators of superautos have no idea how to make those changes, much less that they are needed. 0 Reply December 26, 2008
Ron Cortez In the interest of teaching about espresso let’s not forget “Caffé Fresco” as an addition to your formula. After all, if the coffee is not relatively fresh it will be hard to get decent crema. I think Jason from Cartel will agree with that. 0 Reply December 29, 2008
Chris Tingom After talking to some people I understand they have porcelain cups now. 0 Reply December 29, 2008
Psyd Ron, there is an oft quoted rule of thumb that is referred to as ‘Babbie’s Rule of Fifteens’. While it doesn’t apply to all roasts or beans, it’s generally pretty close: Fifteen months for Greens. After that, they start to go off. Fifteen days for Roasted Beans. After that they’ve lost too much CO2. Fifteen minutes for Ground Coffee. After that, it start to stale. That’s all part of the ‘Miscela’ M. 0 Reply January 2, 2009
Rexy No porcelain cups? WTF, who do they think they are? No wonder they went out of business! No porcelain cups! – those bastards. I would’ve held my breath and demanded they run right out and buy porcelain cups just for me, because life is all about me! But if I told them to go right out and buy porcelain cups, then I’d have to talk and breathe, which would proclude me from holding my breathe! Such a dilema! Whatever could I do? Perhaps hand them a hand-written note telling them to run right out and buy porcelain cups, but then whilst handing them the note they could possibly mistake the note for a robbery note and call the police, while I’m standing there turning blue from holding my breath. But turning blue might not be a bad thing, because the police wear blue uniforms; so my turning blue would be kind of a shout out to the police. If they showed up wearing tan uniforms that would be like so totally unfashionable and I’d be screwed, unless while holding my breath I could go from blue to tan, which would also be pretty cool and another shout out to the police. Good thing DazBog went out of business, otherwise look at the problems I’d have to deal with! 0 Reply August 19, 2012
Rexy No porcelain cups? WTF, who do they think they are? No wonder they went out of business! No porcelain cups! – those bastards. I would’ve held my breath and demanded they run right out and buy porcelain cups just for me, because life is all about me! But if I told them to go right out and buy porcelain cups, then I’d have to talk and breathe, which would proclude me from holding my breath! Such a dilema! Whatever could I do? Perhaps hand them a hand-written note telling them to run right out and buy porcelain cups, but then whilst handing them the note they could possibly mistake the note for a robbery note and call the police, while I’m standing there turning blue from holding my breath. But turning blue might not be a bad thing, because the police wear blue uniforms; so my turning blue would be kind of a shout out to the police. If they showed up wearing tan uniforms that would be like so totally unfashionable and I’d be screwed, unless while holding my breath I could go from blue to tan, which would also be pretty cool and another shout out to the police. Good thing DazBog went out of business, otherwise look at the problems I’d have to deal with! Going to Italy must be like way totally cool, especially if you went there just to drink coffee – you must be like some kind of coffee guru. Did you see Tony Soprano while you were in Italy drinking coffee? How cool would that have been? He could’ve made you an honorary “coffee drinkin’ Made Guy”, then you could’ve gone around making coffee collections. Still, it’s a good thing DazBog is out of business, I don’t think I could handle all of this stress. 0 Reply August 19, 2012
Rexy No porcelain cups? WTF, who do they think they are? No wonder they went out of business! No porcelain cups! – those bastards. I would’ve held my breath and demanded they run right out and buy porcelain cups just for me, because life is all about me! But if I told them to go right out and buy porcelain cups, then I’d have to talk and breathe, which would proclude me from holding my breath! Such a dilema! Whatever could I do? Perhaps hand them a hand-written note telling them to run right out and buy porcelain cups, but then whilst handing them the note they could possibly mistake the note for a robbery note and call the police, while I’m standing there turning blue from holding my breath. But turning blue might not be a bad thing, because the police wear blue uniforms; so my turning blue would be kind of a shout out to the police. If they showed up wearing tan uniforms that would be like so totally unfashionable and I’d be screwed, unless while holding my breath I could go from blue to tan, which would also be pretty cool and another shout out to the police. Good thing DazBog went out of business, otherwise look at the problems I’d have to deal with! Going to Italy must be like way totally cool, especially if you went there just to drink coffee – you must be like some kind of coffee guru. Did you see Tony Soprano while you were in Italy drinking coffee? How cool would that have been? He could’ve made you an honorary “coffee drinkin’ Made Guy”, then you could’ve gone around making coffee collections. Still, it’s a good thing DazBog is out of business, I don’t think I could handle all of this stress. I’m going to post this one more time because I need lots of attention and I live in Scottsdale so I’m more important than most other people. The End 0 Reply August 19, 2012
