In this video Ronald Cortez (Cafe Cortez) and Tom Maegdlin (Press Coffee) discuss coffee roasting in AZ. I have more video I’ll be posting soon. My bright shining face is in the video but my only contribution is to say “Yeah.” In this video we were discussing the benefits to a coffee shop for roasting in-house. Ronald Cortez has been working with his customers to help them roast their own coffee. Thanks to Steve Kraus for the camera work!
Ron Cortez The baby voice in the background is my daughter Angela. She wanted to join in the discussion, after all she believes that once you get accostumed to fresh roasted coffee all those brands from out of state and even Italy do not qualify as gourmet. Cannot blame her, she has a very clean palate and she want to make her daddy proud. Good job Angela. 0 Reply September 17, 2009
Todd I couldn’t agree more with the sentiment here. Gourmet coffee by its very nature MUST be something created by an artist. That means someone who can take green coffee and through knowledge, passion, and skill transform it into a truly incredible experience. I sometimes feel like good, locally roasted coffee should be called ‘artesian’ coffee instead of ‘gourmet’…. 0 Reply September 18, 2009
Psyd I have to agree. Gourmet coffee is found in the dry good aisle of the local chain grocery store, and usually has vanilla, hazelnut, raspberry, or macadamia nut syrup baked on to half robusta beans. Artisan coffee, however, can be roasted in any state and shipped to your door in two or three days. Since I like my coffee’s best three to five days post-roast, I can get artisan coffees from almost any state in the union. I shop locally, though, to support local roasters and shop owners. Until recently, I could get local roasts from that day to five days post roast, Intelly roasts from three to five days post roast out of Chicago, PT’s coffee from KC five to seven days post roast, (and probably sooner if I were a bit more organized) and Batdorf and Bronson’s ‘Dancing Goat’ anywhere form three days to three weeks (I know, I’m learnin’ em) post-roast. Most of these are close enough that I can pick them up on my bicycle, even in the summer heat. I have to agree with almost everything that Ron says about his coffee, with the minor quibble that out-of-state does not equal not fresh roasted. Heck, I can eve get a Charbucks blend roasted in their Henderson, Nevada three days post roast.I have to agree. Gourmet coffee is found in the dry good aisle of the local chain grocery store, and usually has vanilla, hazelnut, raspberry, or macadamia nut syrup baked on to half robusta beans. Artisan coffee, however, can be roasted in any state and shipped to your door in two or three days. Since I like my coffee’s best three to five days post-roast, I can get artisan coffees from almost any state in the union. I shop locally, though, to support local roasters and shop owners. Until recently, I could get local roasts from that day to five days post roast, Intelly roasts from three to five days post roast out of Chicago, PT’s coffee from KC five to seven days post roast, (and probably sooner if I were a bit more organized) and Batdorf and Bronson’s ‘Dancing Goat’ anywhere form three days to three weeks (I know, I’m learnin’ em) post-roast. Most of these are close enough that I can pick them up on my bicycle, even in the summer heat. I have to agree with almost everything that Ron says about his coffee, with the minor quibble that out-of-state does not equal not fresh roasted. Heck, I can eve get a Charbucks blend roasted in their Henderson, Nevada three days post roast. 0 Reply September 18, 2009
Tom Maegdlin There are several grocery stores in Chicago (whole foods is one) that sell Intelli. I think Metropolis might be in a couple grocery stores now too. The point is, there will come a point in AZ coffee when the demand is great enough that even the safeways, bashas and Aj’s of the world will be forced (because of demand) to carry a variety of locally roasted coffees. Coffee is like produce, you buy it when it is fresh, and use is before it goes bad. Now the hard part is getting the public to notice the difference. The other side of this (from the supplier standpoint) is managing the supply chain. Most grocery stores won’t spoil coffee because they consider it a dry good. I just don’t think at this point grocery stores are prepared to eat that cost. The starbucks and petes of the world are proving too profitable for there to be any serious paradaigm shift at the moment. It is sad, but our work is cut out for us. 0 Reply September 18, 2009
Psyd I completely agree, but the advantage the local roaster has is that he can get the product to market fresh without shipping. Both products are fresh, but the advantages (and the marketing advantages) are that one is getting the product cheaper without the added shipping costs, and that the product is supporting the local economy. There is even the green marketing tool that suggests that it has a smaller carbon footprint in that South American and Carribean beans are only traveling across the country by airplane once. While freshness is an important aspect of the coffee, to suggest that it is less fresh because it’s in-state isn’t (always) completely accurate. I got the ‘stare’ recently, at what should be a competent coffee shop, when I suggested that the two-week old beans on their counter weren’t fresh enough. First we educate those that should know different, and the rest will follow. I salute Ron’s efforts to educate and I want to make sure that the information is correct. This might be something to touch on with some of the baristi coming to the jam to bring back to owners and managers. Andy Newbom had a bit of a battle with some of the local Whole Foods that he was supplying, if I remember right. I *think* that they were balking at the roast date on the bag? I don’t remember the result, but it seems that there are WF’s in San Francisco that are carrying roast dated Ritual coffee as well. Things are starting to happen… 0 Reply September 18, 2009
Ron Cortez Great! This is an awesome dialogue. Our point is not to run an experiment in how long it takes from any package of out of state coffee to ship to someone’s door. The coffee houses do not have the time to be waiting for daily shipments of coffee dated 3 days prior of delivery and paying $10 for shipping. The point that we try to make was that if a consumer walks into a coffee shop and get the smell and experience of them roasting fresh coffee, this will give an amazing credible message that the coffee being served there is better and of better quality than the one of a chain of coffee shops who’s only argument is massive marketing. All this will work best if the consumer is driven to learn that is not the “purchased” reviews and the marketing campaigns what dictates how good a coffee is. We are talking about how even the best roasters local and from around the nation will have a hard time convincing this new wave of coffee shop owners that there coffee is better. Is just a new movement that We have started and now being implemented. My goal is to allow baristas to learn about coffee roasting so someday they will become the new generation of coffee roasters of our community. I will love to include Psyd in one of our classes, I am sure he will become a great advocate. 0 Reply September 19, 2009
Psyd Those are lofty goals, Ron, and I support them, but I’m a bit of a realist, and possibly a cynic as well. Sue me, but I think that folk are still going to be swayed by mass marketing campaigns. As they say, you don’t sell the steak, you sell the sizzle. And people are, by and large, sheep. Add to that that fresh roasted coffee smells great, and roasting coffee smells somewhat less great (not quite a cat box, but…), and you’re seeing where I’m going. If you were to have a box of three month old beans and a box of three day old beans available for customers coming into the shop to stick their noses in, they’d immediately understand what it is that you’re trying to sell them. The trick is getting them into the shop to see the boxes in the first place. If you could stand outside the grocery store with a bag labeled “Beans I just bought in the store” and another labeled “Beans I just roasted in my shop”, you could change the world. But you’d eventually get arrested for trespassing. 0 Reply September 19, 2009
Ron Cortez I agree about the challenge being ambitious, but I think that is not unachievable. We have for our use several roasters (Probat,Vittoria,2 Ambex, and plenty Behmors) that are available to teach baristas about roasting profiles and all the different styles. We will be benching coffees that we will get from around the nation to be cupped against our own roasts, so they can feel that we can duplicate a product produced by famous coffee companies (We will start with the best coffee companies and the results will be made public). We are planning to use this new talent as the sampling/promoting task force. I have been involved in teaching roasting at the SCAA for a couple of times and I will use very nice PowerPoint presentations that our students can take and use to further there education. See, is not unbelievable if we are willing to do the work. I think that coffee roasting has been kept from reaching people for a long time and now should be made very public. We are also going to be teaching in Tucson out of Savaya coffee, I will keep you guys posted out of this site. We are going to change things and it will be fun. 0 Reply September 20, 2009
Psyd Ehm, duplicating the product of famous coffee companies shouldn’t be your goal. This is why they’re constantly afraid to tell you what is in their blends. I’m willing to shop someone’s product from across the globe if I can have an idea of what it is that I’m getting. Fear of being copied and co-opted is what keeps them from telling me what I want to know. You should teach flavours, not infringement. Teach innovation not imitation. If someone comes up with a famous recipe that tastes great and is popular, you should allow them that creativity and to prosper from it. The idea is that you should be able to make things you like once you know the skillset, not that you could be able to get ‘X’ brand coffee without paying the cost of the research and development that ‘X’ went through to get it. Yeahbut, let me know when you’re going to be in Tucson… 0 Reply September 20, 2009
Tom Maegdlin I think Ron’s main put is very strong and I think Chris’s warning is a valid one. The future of the market is for people to have choices. Markets like Chicago, Portland, San. Fran, New York and even LA are proving that. You should go to the cafe that has a roasting philosophy that syncopates with your personal taste (and maybe less importantly style.) Some people like the heavy blenders. That’s perfectly fine. There in nothing that says coffee should only be consumed as a single origin. Then again, people are adding extra grinders to their setup to offer single origin espresso, and some have had it even before it was trendy. It all comes down to a matter of personal taste! Even within a couple miles of each other, two identical coffee shops (setup and product) could have a completely different clientele. I have seen it. It is kind of bizarre I know. But people go to places where they are comfortable. They order things that they are familiar with. The 18-24 year olds are you demographic that WILL drink what you want them to drink though. When it comes to coffee they are still Tabula Rossa. Ask just about anyone when they really started having a coffee habit and they will probably tell you around college. If they have a barista they respect, they will adopt his/her bias toward any given philosophy, behaviors and prejudices. To quote Ron, “There are very few hard and fast truths about coffee.” There are, however, many people that will have you believe that something is a finite truth to only find out that this particular person holds these said biases. I deal with wine reps a lot and I can tell you that wine is an industry that thrives on these kinds of trends and prejudices. Let’s face it, most of the wine community are dwelling somewhere between Narnia and Limbo. This is a stark warning for me. I never want this industry to turn into what wine has become; snobbery based upon the will of a very few people and what they think people should like. I understand what you are saying Chris and I completely agree. Innovation not emulation. Ron is right too though. For many years a lot of coffee roasters have held to the maxim that roasting is more art than science. It is like anything though, you become acquainted with the science and then when you are comfortable with that, you put your own touch on it. I think this is a good foundation for Arizona upon which to build. We need to become concrete with our science before our artistry develops, baristas and aspiring roasters alike. 0 Reply September 21, 2009
Ron Cortez I am accepting personal info from baristas that will like to come down and learn how to roast and cup coffee, the cupping will be done traditional style, French press and espresso (SCAA standard). First we will have an introductory session to the particular roaster that is going to be used in that session. Second we will select several coffees to be roasted in several degrees and profiles. Coffee can be taken for later cuppings and to understand the aging curb. Third we will cup them as well as any coffee that participants want to bring (we will cup blind). you can e-mail me your interest and info at rcortez@cafecortez.com I encourage participants to bring micro brewed beer to the sessions (usually held after hours) so people will relax, have a good time and share ideas. 0 Reply September 22, 2009
Psyd Well, the guy that roasts for me would probably love to come, and I’d love to come and watch and learn, but neither of us are baristi as a profession. I’ve given it up (although, if the sound design things stays this quiet, I may have to dust of my resume…) and he’s roasting mostly for friends, and being a ‘barista’ on my old Silvia. If you have the space, and we have enough lead time to clear our schedules, we’d both love to come. 0 Reply September 23, 2009
Todd Chris – I’d recommend that you and your friend make it up to this. I spoke with Ron at length about it the other day and I am REALLY excited about this! I am not a barista – I’ve never even worked a commercial espresso machine – but I do a bit of roasting at home and I am quite excited about learning not only how to improve the art of coffee roasting, but also use it as a way to tell outsiders that Arizona coffeeshops are innovative and unique. In anticipation of this event I am firing up my beer brewing skills as well and I might have to come prepared with some homebrew and some home roasted coffee! 0 Reply September 24, 2009
